Tag Archives: safe construction

Why You Should Not Buy a Gun Safe Online

Internet sales are increasing all the time, but buying some things online is just not a good idea.

Take kayaks, for instance. You should never buy a kayak online because kayaks are very personal in nature. The correct model will be dictated partly by the purpose for it, whether it will be used for speed, stability, fishing, rivers vs. lakes, etc. But your personal height, weight, width and need for comfort will dramatically affect how the boat feels and performs. An expert sales person can be critical to making a good decision, and you will probably be allowed to try it in the water.

Now, you could use that sales person’s expertise to decide which kayak is right for you, then turn around and buy it online to save a few dollars. But that behavior sucks!! You should reward the sales person, and that brick & mortar business for their service. They pay local taxes and provide local jobs. You can buy from what I call “the cheapest whore” on the internet (pardon me), but he doesn’t care at all about you and has done nothing but make a few dollars off someone else’s work.

In my opinion gun safes and vault doors are other things that should not be bought over the internet, for some of the same reasons. While gun safes obviously are not affected by aerodynamics and buoyancy in water, their construction details are critically important to security. There is more to it than can be shown with a few pictures. An in-person conversation with a knowledgeable safe expert will be immensely helpful, compared to buying something online just based on price.

Most folks don’t know anything about buying a gun safe. They may try to research online, but the majority of what is found there is wrong and misleading anyway. Often a friend tells them which brand of safe they bought, but that friend probably doesn’t really know what he bought either. For some people the next step is to look online for the cheapest place to buy that same model the friend bought.

I recently stumbled across a website where they sell over twenty brands of gun safes. Most brands that you have heard about are supposed to be in stock, and I am sure that their price is pretty good. It has to be, because they make their sales by being “the cheapest whore”. But here is the issue: While some of these gun safes are good, most are cheap, inferior Chinese products. Some come from the same Chinese factories and the primary difference is the name on the front of the safe. Some of the brands being sold advertise a certain thickness of steel but actually use thinner steel than advertised. (The importers don’t know what to say when confronted by someone with a micrometer who actually measures thickness.) Some of these brands use recycled pieces of drywall for insulation. I have been told by one of the importers that he knows the fire ratings are bogus, and that some have never been tested. Many have inferior locks. Etc., etc.

Here is the point to my rambling: This particular internet seller — and others who may operate the same way – are they ignorant of what they are selling or do they just choose to lie about what they are selling? In either case do they deserve your hard-earned dollars? If they actually cared about their customer, wouldn’t they make a value judgement about what they sell? For instance, “Brand A and brand B are the same product except for the name on front. Brand C is almost exactly the same price as A and B, but it has a more secure boltworks. So my decision is to sell C but not A or B.” Or “I know that brand X costs slightly less than brand Z, but I know that X lies about the amount of steel they use, so I will sell only Z”. Doesn’t honesty count for anything?

Yes, low price is important to many people. Even at the low end, however, some products have more value at the same price. If a mis-informed customer wants to buy a Brand Q gun safe the easiest thing is to sell it to him and make a few bucks. A better thing to do is suggest something in the same price range that offers more security or a legitimate fire rating. The best thing to do is not even carry the safe with the worst value proposition.

I choose not to sell any low-end gun safes at all, because I won’t risk our reputation by selling inferior products. Appearance becomes more important at the high end, but the same value principle applies to expensive vaults. Appearances aside, if there are three different models in the $4000 price range, one will offer more security for the money. Shouldn’t an honest, knowledgeable business owner sell that brand, or the two best? Shouldn’t the sales person at least point out which one is better?

Support that local locksmith or safe dealer who takes the time to honestly help you make a good decision, who will point out the best value proposition, rather than just take your money. There is real value in what he does. His overhead is higher because the brick & mortar building is required to provide that service. That is the business to work with, even if it costs a few dollars more.

Safes and Locks for Marijuana Dispensaries and Suppliers

The medical marijuana industry is here and gaining acceptance. Things are still evolving for growers and dispensaries, which can make the business side of it difficult. From what we see some of those issues are:

Cannabis dispensaries and growers are much more likely to suffer break-ins than traditional businesses. The product involved, and the perception that huge amounts of cash are involved, make dispensaries tempting targets.
Insurance may be difficult to obtain which opens up business owners to out-of-pocket losses.
Start-up loans are extremely hard to get, so more out-of-pocket money is required to open a business.
Banking difficulties may require that more cash be kept on-site.
Regulations are likely to change at the local, state and federal levels. What you spend today to comply with regulations might be wasted money by next year.

In one way or another, the following products will help with physical security issues: Door locks & hardware, safes & vault doors, camera systems, alarm & monitoring systems. Hoogerhyde deals with the first two of these.

Locks: A dispensary’s building should have high security locks. Avoid using residential quality locks that you buy at box stores. Commercial grade locks are much stronger so they will slow down would-be burglars. Restricted key systems will prevent employees from having duplicate keys made without authorization. Consider up-grading to keyless locks to eliminate keys altogether.

Safes: Most cannabis suppliers for whom we have provided safes have chosen to save money by purchasing less security than we would recommend. This is usually because cash is in short supply when starting the business without bank loans. Naturally, safes are important for protecting inventory and cash. We always have a selection of used high security safes in stock to help save money.

If a business does not have good insurance a break-in could cause a major financial loss. Top notch physical security then becomes especially important, to minimize potential loss. Besides that, a vault with a high security rating may be a requirement to be insured. One of our dispensary clients who purchased what we consider to be an appropriate safe, was told by his insurance company that a TL-15 rated safe was needed to obtain coverage.

If the federal government eventually relaxes marijuana laws, it may require suppliers to comply with the same D.E.A. requirements that it dictates when dealing with other controlled substances. In that case the dispensary that initially bought a cheap safe would need to spend money again to buy a TL-15.

Hoogerhyde Safe can help protect your medical marijuana business. Out store is in Grand Rapids but we deliver to anywhere in Michigan. We have a big assortment of new and used safes, from small to huge — and vault doors. We also have the knowledge to answer your questions. In addition, we can increase your building’s security by installing high quality locks and key systems.

Beware of Gun Safes Which Are Mis-represented

One of the fastest growing companies in the gun safe industry does not make anything, they import their gun safes from China. This blog has referred to them in the past because they are most flagrant liars, the most deceitful people I know. (Fear of getting sued prevents using their name.) They came around again last week with a cube truck in which they display a number of products. Giving them another chance, I climbed into the truck and listened to the national sales manager for a minute about how great their Chinese gun safes are.

Their top-of-line gun safe is supposed to be built of 8 gauge steel, which would be pretty good, but feeling the steel was enough to tell that this was another lie. With a micrometer and gauge chart it took about 30 seconds to show he was wrong. The steel was 10 gauge – a big difference. Even after proving the lie he made up stupid stories to weasel out of the problem: “Well the supplier’s paperwork says 8 gauge”; “it depends on which gauge system you are using”, “maybe this is one of the old models”, etc.

This guy stated that their gun safes are better than other imports because the factory they use is the best one in China. But this factory is one which I know uses skip-welds. It also uses drywall construction scraps for insulation. This company claims that one of their product lines is “Made in America” even though they are, in fact, made in China. Apparently, if you install the lock and a few little pieces in the U.S. you can claim the whole safe is American. I could go on….

The point is that these crooks claim to be protecting your valuables while intentionally misleading you. Dishonestly selling JUNK at low prices is why they are growing. If you buy a safe to protect the guns which are your passion, or to protect a significant part or your net worth, you darn well better buy your gun safe from someone who knows and cares and is honest about what they sell!

A Good Alternative to a Gun Safe for Storing Guns

Instead of buying a cheap gun safe because your budget is limited, consider spending a similar amount on a good used commercial safe and make your own “gun safe”. You may be way better off both fire-wise and security-wise.

For example, pictured is a commercial safe we took in last week. It was used in a high security situation – you can see where several types of alarms were mounted to the front. It also has a legitimate 4-hour U.L. certified fire rating. There are several gun safes with ratings as high as 2.5 hours, but those ratings are bogus and the safes would never pass U.L. tests for that long.

The Mosler safe shown is 76”H X 42.5”W X 30”D outside and 60 X 33 X20 inside. That is 23 cubic feet of inside capacity. We will sell it for $1500. So if you invested a few hours into making a gun rack, and maybe painting it, you would end up with an outstanding unit for the price of a poor quality gun safe. Check with your nearest safe dealer for similar opportunities. If you live in Michigan come see us.

Interior Options on Gun Safes

If you have shopped for a gun safe you have run into the “one size fits all” interior configurations. Everyone is supposed to want the same set-up – a vertical divider in the center and 10 to 15 gun spaces on each side. But that doesn’t work well for everyone.

I sold a gun safe to a woman this week who has just two rifles, and plans on one more. She has lots of other stuff that needs to be secured, however. So why should she waste half of the interior space for just two rifles? A Fort Knox unit in the 60 X 31 X 27 size with a four-gun interior works perfectly for her. She has four full width shelves for jewelry, pistols and documents with just a small area dedicated to long guns.

Fort Knox has many different interior configurations so the owner can use the space efficiently. A 60 X 31 X 27, for instance, can be set up to handle 4, 8, 13, 18, 26, 31, 36 or 40 long guns. If your needs change in a few years you can order different shelving. The photo shows a small unit, 60 X 26, with a 3 gun interior. Lots of usable shelf space. Other alternatives include the “all gun” rack shown at the bottom, which has 18 spaces.

Fort Knox dealers will have lots of gun safe options in stock, and lead times for special orders are usually only about 6 to 8 weeks. Fort Knox specializes in allowing you to get exactly what you want by offering many sizes, security levels, colors, lock arrangements, etc. Don’t “make do” with a gun safe that doesn’t fit your needs, just because it’s the only choice offered. Go to a Fort Knox dealer and spec out a unit that is exactly what you want, including the right interior.

Vault Doors by Graffunder

The photo shows a Graffunder vault door waiting to be delivered and installed (handle spokes not yet installed). This unit is an in-swing version, in the smaller of their two sizes, a VB7834. The paint is textured “Medusa Gray” with chrome hardware, which I like because it seems to show the depth and the lines.

Even though this is Graffunder’s smaller size and lightest construction it still weighs 1300# and has plenty of strength built into it. The door is ½” solid plate steel, the outside and inside frames are 5/8″ and ½” respectively, and the threshold plate is 1” solid steel. Like the doors on Graffunder gun safes, Graffunder vault doors fit tighter into the frame than any others on the market. There is absolutely no way to insert any kind of prying tool. They also have special lock protection, unique relockers and other security features not found on other units.

Graffunders are the very best. Other good, less expensive options are American Security, Golden Spike or Fort Knox vault doors. If you are building a new home, or if your existing home has a place for one, a walk-in vault door is a terrific addition that adds value to your home.

Small Antique Safes for Sale

I have been collecting small antique safes for a long time, but I have been informed that it is time to thin out the collection. Most of these safes are from about 13” to 18” tall. They are too small to be very functional, but cute as decorations or conversation pieces.

Some folks claim these are salesman’s samples but most were actually sold to be used for storage of cash and jewelry in a home or office. They typically weigh from about 70 to 100 pounds – a thief could walk away with one, but at least he couldn’t run with it. Several have handles on top so maybe a poor salesman did have to lug them around on a regular basis. They were built to be fire proof. Some units have real wheels underneath, some have fake wheels, some have little feet and some sit flat on the ground. There are both key and combination lock models.

Finding small antique safes for sale with good original paint is difficult so they don’t sell cheap. If the paint is too plain or worn out to be attractive, they can be restored or customized to suit your taste.

A small antique safe could be your adult version of a piggy bank, or a visible reminder of that special savings goal. A financial planner I know has a very classy little unit in his office, I think because it sends a message to his customers. A small antique safe might make a great Christmas gift. The units shown start at $700. Call if any of these grab your attention, 616-458-6365. Antique safes can be delivered, picked up at our shop or shipped across the country.

Used Safe Deposit Boxes Can Be Useful

We sometimes get blocks of safe deposit boxes from inside large safes. But a large local bank is getting ready for a renovation project which includes removing over 2600 safe deposit boxes of various sizes from a large vault.

Safe deposit boxes typically have ½” thick stainless steel doors, while the bodies are light duty steel or aluminum. They usually have dual key locks, a “guard key” for the bank employee, and a “user key” for the box renter. Some come with combination locks, these are usually for bank personnel.

Safe deposit boxes are not hot sellers but a few folks find uses for them. Coin collectors, for instance, may segregate different classes of coins in separate boxes. Ammo can be organized with safe deposit boxes inside a gun safe. If you have a use for safe deposit boxes your local safe specialist probably has some around. If you need 2600 of them call us right away before this group gets scrapped.

Securing Historic Documents, Signatures, Stamps, Part 2

The last post was about why most fire safes are not appropriate for securing collections of historic documents, signatures, stamps, etc. Media/data safes are the best way to store these items.

Media safes are built to protect computer discs, tapes, thumb drives, etc., which get damaged at much lower temperatures than paper. 175 to 200 degrees F – or high humidity — is all it takes to ruin discs and tapes. Data safe insulation does not give off moisture like traditional fire safes, and it will keep the inside temps lower. During the same test in which the inside of fire safes must stay below 350 F, the inside of data safes must remain below 125 F or 150 F, (lower than the melting point of plastics). While the inside of most fire safes will become saturated with moisture in a fire, data safes are built to stay under 80% humidity. Doors on media safes are also more air tight, and many units even have two air tight doors.

There are trade-offs with media safes, however. Thicker walls and doors mean that for safes with comparable exterior dimensions, data safes will be smaller inside. They are not as burglary resistant as some other safes, either; it makes sense to keep the safe holding your collection in a locked room. Cost of a new data safe is about three times that of other types. But since few businesses now use data safes, used ones are selling cheap.

For example, the used Schwab 1844CTS pictured is rated 1Hour/125 F. During the one hour test up to 1700 F, the inside will stay under 125 F at less than 80% humidity. It is 50.5”h x 22.75w x 13d outside, 38.5 x 12.8 x 13 inside. Original list price was over $8000, but we’ll sell it in like-new condition for $1000.

Don’t let your bit of history be ruined in a fire. Protect your collection in a data safe.

Securing Historic Documents, Signatures & Stamps

Collectors of signatures, historic documents or stamps should secure their collections in good safes with two-hour fire ratings, right? Maybe not.

Fire safes protect papers from charring and burning if there is a fire. If you experience a fire, however, your documents are likely to be damaged by moisture in most types of safes. When subjected to heat the insulation gives off water vapor to the point where the inside air is saturated with water. As the safe cools down, lower internal temperatures cause the air to become super-saturated, so that papers will become damp or even wet. They will get wrinkly and inks may get blurry. In addition, water pressure from a fire hose may penetrate the crack between the safe door and frame, forcing water into the safe. If the safe is in a basement and water pools up there, that water may also seep inside the safe.

People in the safe and gun safe industries usually recommend that valuable documents be protected by putting them in plastic sleeves or Tupperware-type containers to protect them from moisture damage. This advice may be erroneous. There are hundreds of different plastic compositions and each has its own characteristics. Good information is hard to find, but the melt point will vary depending on the exact chemical composition.

Consider Tupperware: Most of their products are made from low density polyethylene (LDPE), high density polyethylene (HDPE) or high density polypropylene (HDPP). From what I can find these materials begin to melt at temps as low as 278 degrees F for HDPE, or 266 F for HDPE. Characteristics of the melting process also vary by chemical composition – they may just lose their shape, they might become sticky or they might give off damaging chemicals. That process might damage the items you are trying to protect. When fire safes are tested the inside temperature can go as high as 350 F before they are considered to have failed. Plastic containers, therefore, could potentially melt inside a safe that is “performing well”.

Next: A better type of safe for historic docs.